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Devendra Gautam and Ramkala Khadka of Annapurna Media Network caught up with Katie Donohoe, mission director at the USAID in Nepal, to discuss different facets of the agency’s 63-year-long partnership in Nepal and plans for the future. Excerpts from the interview:

First of all, what inspired you to this journey, this career path?

I think there are two ways to answer that question: my work at USAID, and what inspired me to come to Nepal. I’ve always been interested in seeing the world. And I’ve always been interested in working with others and serving others. USAID allows me to do both. I get to work in partnership with people around the world to help them in different areas and provide assistance on behalf of the US government. And then I get to see the world. I actually started as a Peace Corps volunteer, as a teacher in Madagascar a long time ago. And that really made me want to keep doing this type of work. I’ve also worked in Zambia, Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, and now here in Nepal. And what brought me to Nepal is when I was thinking about my next assignment, I was really interested in working in a country with an amazing cultural diversity, a country that’s really changing quickly. So I’m fond of saying Nepal is changing, and USAID needs to change with it.

We’re really thinking about how we work and listen to Nepalis to tailor our portfolio along that development journey. And that’s what brought me here. I’ve been doing this work for about 20 years, and I think it’s shaping up to be my favorite job. 

And how has your experience been so far here in Nepal? 

Wonderful, really great. I had never been to Nepal before. I had certainly read about it and heard about it, but in Nepal, we’ve just been so warmly welcomed. I’m here with my family. I have lots of khadas everywhere in my house.

I’ve gotten to travel in Nepal. I’ve been to Janakpur and Sudurpaschim, Karnali, Pokhara, and then of course around Kathmandu. And it’s just been really a warm welcome, and as fascinating as I thought it would be.

The USAID has been in Nepal for the last seven decades or so?

Sixty-three years. 

What is the guiding philosophy driving the agency in Nepal?

Sure, that’s a great question. Our guiding philosophy is partnership, working together, listening to Nepalis, to determine the needs of the people, and then how we can bring our resources and other expertise to walk along that journey together. So in these 63 years, USAID has had some really remarkable accomplishments in Nepal with Nepali people. We helped pave the first roads here. We helped fund the first telephone exchange. We helped eradicate malaria.

I’m really proud, particularly of our work with women and children. Child mortality in Nepal has gone down 60 percent over the course of two decades. And that’s really remarkable. And we’re lucky to be on that journey.

To go back to your original question, I think those are the guiding principles of partnership. And then we really are focusing on thinking about federalism and how to implement federalism and implement the Nepali constitution by making sure, as Nepal develops, that everyone is included in that journey.

And then resilience. Of course, Nepal is, as we just felt recently, subject to shocks, different environmental shocks. So we do a lot of work thinking about resilience and how to help prepare Nepali people for those shocks so that, hopefully, everyone’s prepared for the next challenge.

What are the main strategic priorities of USAID missions in Nepal over the next few years, and how does it ensure that its projects align with Nepal’s national priorities, Nepal’s government’s priorities.

That’s where we start from: the priorities of the government of Nepal. We don’t ever want to do anything that doesn’t align with the needs of Nepal. So I mentioned those three overarching priorities, which are federalism, inclusion and resilience. And then we also think about working in different areas. So we work in education, which means helping teachers and children. We work in health, which is largely focused on mothers and children. We work on economic growth, which is a lot working with farmers and agriculture, but also working with small entrepreneurs. I’ve met some really great Nepali entrepreneurs. And then also thinking about democratic governance. We support the policymakers at every level of the Nepali government to implement democracy here in Nepal.

One of the foremost challenges for Nepal is dealing with disasters. Recently a quake epicentered in Tibet shook parts of Nepal (eastern Nepal) that showed how ill-prepared we are when it comes to dealing with disasters. This quake comes barely a year after the Jajarkot quake that left behind a trail of death, devastation and displacement. How is the USAID helping Nepal strengthen the institutional capacity in dealing with such disasters?

Sure. There are two ways we’re doing that. One is we’re working with the national institutions that think about disaster risk reduction, doing capacity building, planning to help everyone be prepared. And then we’re also working at the provincial and municipal level.

So for example, when I went to Sudurpaschim, we met with the municipal government and we saw their storeroom of emergency supplies. We have been supporting them to develop a plan to respond to disasters. So we think a lot about preparedness and helping people manage and be ready for a disaster when it strikes. And then of course there are earthquakes and landslides here, so we also have a humanitarian assistance program and a relief and recovery program. For example, in Jajarkot we’re helping build temporary learning centers. We just announced an assistance program of five million dollars that will build classrooms so that children can get back in school. This is an important part of our portfolio because it’s important to the government of Nepal and important to us as well.

As you said, USAID has been serving Nepal for 63 years. How does it measure the impact of its program in Nepal? Are there any notable success stories that you can share?

Monitoring data and accountability are really important to us. We want to make good investments that serve the people of Nepal. So I mentioned a few of the successes earlier but I’ll go back. One is the reduction in child mortality, which has gone down by 60 percent. So that’s a statistic that we track really closely.

Also a huge reduction in malaria. Those are really important. We also think about the number of people we serve. In 2023 alone, we served one million Nepali women, which is a number I love. So we’ve touched them in one way or another because they’re entrepreneurs, because they went to a health clinic that we serve, because they’re teachers and they received support in another way, because they’re community leaders or mayors or deputy mayors and received training or journalists of course, so that’s it. So we look, we try and really think about this data and gather data and that helps us understand what we’ve achieved and how else we can, what else we can achieve.

What also comes to mind is the USAID motto: From the American people. What percentage of USAID assistance, which is the taxpayers’ money, is going to the grassroots? There is this complaint that most of the international development assistance in Nepal actually goes down to paying the consultants, politically influential people and the intermediaries…..

Sure, that’s a great question. I’ll answer it in two ways. First, one of the other reasons I wanted to come to Nepal is that we’re really thinking about locally-led development here. I would say USAID Nepal is really on the cutting edge of getting funding directly to the grassroots, directly to people. So here, we fund Nepali organizations directly. These are civil society and other organizations that are serving Nepalis.

And that funding isn’t going through consultants or international NGOs. It’s going to Nepalis.

The second thing we do that I think is a sign of the deep and long partnership we have with the government of Nepal. In addition to working with CSOs, we fund the government of Nepal directly, which we don’t do in many countries, but we can do it here because we have such trust and accountability.

For example, we fund the Ministry of Health directly, we fund the Ministry of Education directly, and then that money is going straight to schools. That’s how we’re doing things, but then we also go out and visit communities.

Like when I’m in Sudurpaschim, I ask them: What money did you receive? How did you receive it and how did it work? So me and all of my colleagues are constantly doing monitoring.

And then the last thing I would say and it’s really important: We mostly hire and work with Nepali people.

At USAID, most of my staff, most of my colleagues are Nepali people. Most of the development organizations that we work with have entirely Nepali staff. So it’s touching people in that way. The second part of your question is kind of getting at accountability, right? We do a lot of auditing. We actually work with the Auditor General of Nepal, where we do a lot of independent auditing and monitoring, I feel really confident in the systems that we have and that’s what allows us to work so broadly in Nepal because we track really closely our financial systems, our data, we’re always asking for more information and that allows us to work here with confidence.

So how do you ensure that your programs are sustainable and continue to benefit local communities after the funding is stopped?

These are the questions I ask the team. So the first thing is we have to start by listening to Nepalis. And so if we design a program that, you know, I made up in my head in my office, it’s not going to be sustainable because it won’t meet the needs of the people. So we start with the design, and that helps it become more sustainable.

The second thing is it’s not always our funding. So we ask for cost sharing. We say, especially with the private sector or with the government in Nepal, we’ll put in 80 percent, you put in 20 percent. That makes it sustainable over time.

And then good programs last. Recently, I went to Janakpur and saw a program in a municipality that was providing small, small grants to local families, largely Muslim families. And the government, the municipality had used their own budget to continue that program after our funding ended using the capacity developed together to follow up with the families and monitor and provide different inputs.

So the program continued after we left. That’s the way we think about sustainability. But you have to think about it from the beginning or else the program ends, and you think, oh no, this is going to go away when we go away.

You were with the National War College, right?

I was.

How can you help this ill-prepared country fight multiple challenges like poverty, climate change, the shocks associated with climate change, and things like that with your war college background?

That’s an interesting question. So I actually was at the National War College.

I had a Nepali colleague when I was there. There are a number of senior Nepali military officers who studied at the National War College. That really helped me think about strategic development and strategic thinking and that was a lot of what I got out of that year. And so  the biggest lesson I learned there is to remind myself that you need a broad coalition of people to work with you across the governments of Nepal, the people of Nepal to make sure that your work is effective and strategic. As you said, we are investing taxpayer dollars from the American people and so we want to make sure it’s what Nepal wants and that it’s a strategic investment as we move forward and as Nepal develops.

Safa Tempo, Nepal’s first ever electric vehicle, was launched in Nepal with US assistance as part of efforts toward reducing Nepal’s reliance on gas-guzzling vehicles. Import of petroleum products is one of the major factors behind Nepal’s yawning trade deficit as it escalates the cost of running the economy. Is the US government working with Nepal to decrease reliance on diesel and petrol so that the national economy becomes profitable and sustainable in the long run?

We are working with Nepal for sustainable, broad-based economic growth. This includes economic electric vehicles and what we call the business-enabling environment.  

What are the policies that need to be in place so that Nepal develops? 

Nepal’s development has really improved over time in terms of human capital and social indicators vis-a-vis education and health, but the country still needs more economic growth so that people’s incomes rise and the growth becomes sustainable in the long term. We want that growth to be green for environmental reasons. Of course, clean energy is one area that we think about, we look at small entrepreneurs and other things. We’ve done a lot of work on energy, in electric vehicles also, but more in energy transmission. For the first time, Nepal is now a net exporter of energy to India. With USAID’s help, Nepal has completed a great deal of  regulatory work in the field of hydropower that has enabled it to export clean renewable energy to its neighbors. 

Through our partners at USAID Urja Nepal, we are working to develop a clean electricity market in Nepal by enabling households to use clean electricity instead of wood for cooking, working with the government on policies that make it easier for families to choose electric vehicles and helping the private sector clean energy producers sell energy to the Nepal Electricity Authority.

With our partners USAID Urja Nepal we established 23 electric vehicle fast charging stations.

There probably was one study, among several other similar studies, that found the consumption of a unit of green energy brings a return of 86 cents to a national economy. But here we are, exporting the green energy at dirt-cheap rates. Does the US have plans to increase Nepal’s capacity to utilize the domestically-generated green energy to the maximum possible extent instead of exporting it at cheap rates so that the economy becomes profitable and sustainable in the long run?

I cannot talk about the rates but would love to view the study. Going back to the beginning, we want to support Nepal in areas that Nepal and the Nepalis want to develop.

We help train Nepal government officials regarding green energy and other forms of energy. We are ready to help Nepal with policymaking and capacity-building. We are ready to help multilateral, bilateral exchanges that need to happen by working with our colleagues in India. Nepal can ask for help with regard to regulatory changes vis-a-vis the energy exchange.

Do you have any specific programs to support local governance and decentralization?

We have a few and the one I would point to is called public financial management. This program is really helping municipal government officials have a budget, a transparent budget. Using that tool, they (local governments) manage the budget they get from the federal government through the public sector in a transparent manner, making sure that it gets straight to the Nepali people. We also have programs that look at trafficking in persons and help the government of Nepal to stop it,  make sure that communities are prepared to help survivors and become more resilient against trafficking. We also think about civil society and media where we do some training of journalists and civil society to help them produce stories in this space. So in all of our work, but particularly in democracy and governance, we try and think about all the different players in this space: the government, NGOs, the media, all the things that you need to be vibrant in a healthy democracy. 

​​​​​​The first Agricultural University in Nepal was probably established with US assistance. But these days the entire corn belt of Nepal is going to the dogs, going to the monkeys rather. Any plan to revive Nepal’s farming sector?

Agriculture is, as you’ve noted, an area of our longstanding interest and expertise. We have a number of large agriculture programs, and then also ones that support specific, small entrepreneurs. We think about agriculture inputs, we think about fertilizer, we think about how to have people work the land and understand the land they’re on. For example, we funded something called the soil map, so people know what kind of soil they’re working on, which is the first of its kind, and I had certainly never seen one. We are thinking a lot about how to make individual farmers more productive, how to make this system work together, about regulations you need for import and export. And then there’s some individual businesses that we support, we support a poultry farm, for example, to help them market. We support tea so we can help market Nepali tea. So it’s not just going to Darjeeling, but it’s coming out of Nepal.

USAID focuses efforts into keeping agriculture money here in Nepal by helping to set up processing facilities for raw products. In November we launched a spice processing facility that will employ 55 people and produce more than 30 spice products, increasing their value over just exporting raw spices to be processed elsewhere.

So we think a lot about agriculture. There’s a lot of potential there for economic growth in Nepal.      

Something about Feed the Future. Can you just enlighten us about it?

That was all Feed the Future, I should have said that at the beginning. All of our agriculture programs are under what we call Feed the Future. And that’s exactly the idea. I’ve always liked the name of that program, that we need to improve agriculture to feed the future. And that’s literally feeding, well, sort of literally in terms of food growth, but also it’s a huge driver of economic growth. And Nepal does need to start exporting, of course, in agriculture, not just moving from subsistence agriculture, but in terms of more sales, because that will help with economic growth. A lot of potential there.

​​​​​Adding to this question, how do you see it integrate with food security in Nepal?

We think about it in everything we do, one making sure that we’re being inclusive. So we’re thinking through all the different groups of farmers. Of course, there’s a lot of women farmers, people that are marginalized. So thinking through food security, thinking through seasonal means and different agricultural inputs, and that is, I would say, at the base of what we do. And then beyond that, thinking about how food can be taken to market and sold. Of course, that’s a different type of security, but it provides income and then it is ultimately exported.

Does this program also involve preservation of indigenous crops? A lot of indigenous crops are disappearing due to climate change and that’s a huge loss to entire humanity…..

I know that we work to preserve crops that are native to Nepal, and we work really hard to make sure we’re inclusive and working with indigenous groups, working with women, working with marginalized communities. As part of that work, we would work with indigenous crops. I don’t know that we have specific programs focusing on indigenous crops, but we make sure that we’re being inclusive of everyone in all of our programming. That’s really a central tenet of the work that we do.

As part of that effort, the US Embassy organized an “Indigenous Women Leaders in Climate” panel discussion at the embassy in August 2024.

The event brought together women leaders from various organizations to share their expertise and experiences in promoting indigenous-led research and education.

The panel discussion focused on how climate change affects vulnerable communities, leading to significant consequences like migration and the emergence of ghost towns. They also discussed how intergenerational knowledge plays a crucial role in adapting to these changes and preserving cultural heritage.

Before I arrived, in September 2023, Kyle Whyte, a US Science Envoy and one of America’s foremost experts on indigenous knowledge and climate justice visited Nepal. He led the International Conference and Workshop on Indigenous-Led Research and Education in Nepal with the focus of promoting discourse and understanding of indigenous-led research and education and its important role in conservation and strengthening climate resilience. So the US Government is doing a lot across the board to promote inclusivity on multiple fronts.

How can the US help Nepal, a country with minimal carbon footprint, cope with shocks associated with climate change? 

So there are a few things to think about on this front.  One is, you know, disaster reduction and risk management. So thinking through if there are shocks, how do we manage them? Another thing is, when we’re thinking about agricultural inputs, everything that we do, we want it to be as climate resistant as possible, so you’re not focusing just on one crop and then having other negative impacts. Those are the two big ways, and then helping people prepare individually for climate shocks and prepare for disaster. You know, any disasters that may come.

What are the initiatives that you are taking for the economic empowerment of youth, women and marginalized groups, especially in rural areas? 

The first thing we do is make sure that those groups are included. You could go to an area and just talk to the kind of leaders of an area, or the elite folks, and leave behind the youth and the women in the marginalized group. So we start from the beginning by making sure they’re included in any programming. If we look at the data, we see where poverty rates are highest, where literacy rates are highest, where you have lower economic growth, where you have kids who are out of school, where you have higher mortality rates, and those tend to also be marginalized groups, and so working, working with them. And so it’s a program of inclusion, always and always, making sure we’re talking to, listening to everyone while designing programs. 

Do you have some specific training and job opportunities for those groups?

We tend to try and offer our training opportunities to everyone, including kids at risk. And maybe a good example is a great adolescent and reproductive health program that focuses on young women who are at risk of dropping out of school and marrying early. We have specific training to get them back to school in a safe environment and then support them in other ways. We also have a program to try and help people understand the benefits of delaying marriage. The program is targeted at girls, particularly those at risk of marrying early or dropping out of school early. So it’s dependent on the needs of the community and each area in which we’re working.

What specific intervention has the US yet implemented to accomplish educational goals in Nepal, including access to quality education?

I love that question, because I used to be a teacher.

I was a teacher when I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Madagascar. Girls’ access to education is so important for them, but also for equality and for the future of Nepal. So let me mention a few. One is this. You know, when girls reach puberty, sometimes they tend to drop out of school, so figuring out ways in which they can come back to school. So we’ve set up these separate classrooms within schools to help them come back. So if they are behind a bit, they need to catch up. They can. They can work in those classrooms. Another one is reducing child and early marriage, which, of course, has a tendency to bring girls out of school. And then we have a whole program focused on equity and inclusion, equity and inclusion that specifically looks at the municipal level and how we can make sure that kids are in school. Some of that is making sure that schools have resources, so that we give block grants to the districts and the schools to make sure that there’s enough space, because sometimes kids don’t go to school because there are no books at school, or there are no teachers. So thinking through that, and then a lot of community level work with parents and teachers to make sure that kids are coming to school. Nepal has a pretty high enrollment rate. Lots of kids go to school, but learning outcomes need to catch up. We don’t want just kids in school, we want them to be learning.

Do you see any possibility of tectonic shifts in policies once a new administration takes over in the United States?

We’re in the last weeks of our current administration. There have been 12 presidential administrations since USAID was formed in 1961 and this will be my fifth transition working at USAID. It’s really a hallmark of American democracy, this peaceful transition of power…. I think new administrations always have new policy priorities, but at its core, the work of USAID has stayed the same over these past 12 administrations, and so I think that core will stay the same, and I’m sure there will be different priorities, and we’ll work with the new administration, with the government of Nepal and the Nepali people to figure out how those best align here.

Debbie Simpson is Interim Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Plan International. Her career has been marked by her passions for diversity, change and growth. Winner of Consulting Magazine’s Lifetime Achievement Award for 2018 Women Leaders in Consulting, Simpson has been recognised for her role in Boston Consulting Group (BCG)’s continued excellence. She brings experience on for-profit and not-for-profit Boards, where she has assumed leadership roles on audit and finance committees as well as supporting compensation, strategy and development efforts. Simpson received her bachelor’s degree in biomedical engineering from Duke University and her master’s degree in business from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Sloan School of Management.

Here are excerpts from an interview with her:

Plan International Nepal aims to directly impact 700,000 girls and indirectly reach 1.5m individuals during their strategic period. What key tangible outcomes do you envision?

We aim to ensure these individuals have a fair chance at life, equal opportunities, proper rights, and more. Beyond that, we hope to nurture leaders who can make a broader impact on their communities. Our goal is to create an exponential effect, reaching not only the 700,000 individuals directly but also the 1.5m indirectly.

To date, what kind of effects or impacts have you observed in these communities and among the girls?

We’ve been fortunate to meet many members of our Youth Advisory Council in Nepal, each with their own dreams. They’ve gained confidence and clarity about their aspirations while embracing the role of changemakers. Some have engaged with government ministries, while others have taken on leadership roles in their communities. There are so many ways they’re growing, learning, and contributing to making Nepal a more supportive and progressive place.

One of the most remarkable and inspiring programs I had the opportunity to witness in Nepal is the Champions of Change initiative. The members of this program are truly making a difference at the grassroots level by actively working to prevent child, early, and forced marriages. They go door-to-door, engaging with parents, other youths, and community members to campaign against child marriage. Their unwavering determination and willpower reflect their deep commitment to challenging and dismantling harmful traditional stereotypes in their communities. It’s truly impressive to see such dedication driving meaningful change.

Plan International Nepal focuses on youth development and girls’ leadership. How do you see these areas shaping the future of communities in Nepal?

My generation, and a couple of generations before, have left the world in a challenging position. We owe it to the next generation to equip them to take charge, make an impact, and ensure their voices are heard. After all, it’s their planet and their community. To me, youth is everything.

I am confident the world is in good hands after meeting Sikha, a passionate climate activist. Her courage and determination are truly inspiring. She has boldly challenged Plan International's leadership team to collaborate with youth on climate adaptation efforts and to advocate for Loss and Damage initiatives. Sikha’s leadership embodies the power of young people to drive meaningful change and hold us accountable for creating a sustainable future.

The concept of being locally led and globally connected is a positive framework. What excites you most about your impact during your visit to Nepal?

What’s impactful about being globally connected is the ability to share ideas and best practices across locations. For instance, if something works well in Bangladesh, we can adapt and implement it in Nepal, and vice versa. This week, we’re here for a meeting, and one of the exciting things I’ve seen in Nepal is the Champions of Change program. It’s a global initiative, but here, it focuses on adolescent girls, helping them understand themselves, their potential, and how to engage with their communities. It also involves their families—fathers, mothers, and brothers—ensuring a supportive environment. Champions of Change is a perfect example of successful cross-border initiatives.

How is Plan International committed to empowering youth in Nepal and building their capacity through future projects?

Each year, we add around 250–300 girls to our networks. These girls not only receive our support but also learn from one another, forming communities to share and grow their ideas. Over time, this community will grow to thousands—perhaps ten or twelve thousand—and they will become the foundation for the next generation of leaders.

As the CEO of Plan International, what are your key priorities, and how do they align with Plan International Nepal’s goals?

We’re fortunate that our girls' standing strong strategy has been embraced locally. Nepal’s local strategy builds on global priorities while addressing the country’s specific needs. Currently, we’re focusing on responding to humanitarian crises, especially given the increasing risks of climate-related disasters like floods and earthquakes. We’re also prioritizing support for girls in crisis and strengthening our capacity to act quickly in emergencies.

Ensuring accountability for girls’ development is critical. What strategies can strengthen accountability mechanisms in Nepal?

Collaborating with the government is crucial, as they have a responsibility to drive change and provide services. We engage at local, district, and federal levels to influence education and other key areas effectively. Partnering with local organizations also allows us to involve more people in creating solutions, amplifying our impact.

As a global leader, what advice would you give to young women in Nepal aspiring to leadership roles in their communities?

One of the biggest challenges women face is underestimating their own capabilities. Building confidence is essential—believe in yourself, take risks, and understand that you don’t need to be perfect to succeed. Step up, take action, and learn along the way. Confidence and willingness to stretch yourself are key to making an impact.

Plan International’s goals in Nepal seem ambitious. What are the key obstacles you face?

The challenges in Nepal are similar to those in other regions. Progress is often disrupted by disasters, which can set us back significantly. It’s disheartening at times, but we must persist. Developing adaptive leaders is essential—they can guide communities through crises. Funding is another challenge, as resources are often diverted during emergencies. Despite these setbacks, we remain committed to adapting and overcoming.

You recently visited Janakpur. Can you share your experience there?

Janakpur hosts a large, multi-year program focused on marginalized communities, aiming to ensure equality in education and access. Although the program is still in its early stages, we’ve already seen encouraging partnerships among ministers, local governments, and schools. Meeting the youth club at a local school was particularly inspiring. Comprising four girls and four boys, the club gives students a platform to provide feedback to teachers—something quite novel in a traditionally hierarchical setting. Watching their confidence grow and teachers being receptive was remarkable.

How was your experience meeting political leaders and officials there?

Language barriers sometimes hinder the flow of conversations, but the passion for change was evident at all levels. Everyone seemed aligned on the goal; the challenge lies in figuring out how to achieve it. One pressing issue was the shortage of teachers—5,600 students with only 120 teachers is far from ideal. Collaborative discussions about solutions were promising.

The Girls’ Leadership Index report has been released. How do you think such reports contribute?

Indexes and measurements help governments and organizations gauge progress against key metrics. They highlight areas of success and call attention to where improvement is needed. These are vital for bringing about constructive change. 

Nepal has been incredibly welcoming, and it’s inspiring to see the impactful work being done here. Ending early marriage is one of our key goals globally, and we’re working hard in Nepal to raise awareness and implement interventions to address this harmful practice.

Tim Tomlinson is a Professor of Writing at New York University’s Global Liberal Studies Program. He is a co-founder of New York Writers Workshop, and co-author of its popular text, The Portable MFA in Creative Writing. He is the author of the chapbook, Yolanda: An Oral History in Verse; the poetry collection, Requiem for the Tree Fort I Set on Fire; the collection of short fiction, This Is Not Happening to You; and, most recently, the hybrid collection of poetry and prose, Listening to Fish: Meditations from the Wet World. Tomlinson led New York Writers Workshop Kathmandu in May and June where 35 writers from five continents participated. Ken Subedi conversed with Tomlinson about the Kathmandu workshop, his experience in Nepal, his books and his works.

Was this your first time in Nepal? When did you learn about Nepal for the first time?

This is my first time in Nepal. Nepal has been in the background of my consciousness for decades. As a young kid, I knew that people were coming here. Hippies were coming here in the 60s and early 70s. You know well that Cat Stevens’ song “Katmandu” was also based in those times. These things made me wonder about Nepal. I also heard stories about the notorious serial killer, The Serpent.

You are the organizer of New York Writers Workshop Kathmandu and inaugurated Himalayan Literature Festival. Can you please share your experience of the workshop and festival?

The first day of the festival was densely packed. Many moving parts. And I was a bit frantic, putting out brush fires, but things settled a bit on the second day. We’ve been getting lots of positive feedback. I sat in on a couple of panels. The writers we brought here are brilliant and super talented. Hearing from them and knowing that audiences are absorbing all these experiences has been enormously gratifying.

How did you start New York Writers Workshop?

It has been around 24 years now. We started in 2000. We actually taught our first workshop in New York City. A bunch of my friends and colleagues got together and formed our organization. We’d been working for other organizations that did not really respect the life of the writer. We believed we could do better in different ways. We understand the nature of being a writer.

Do you agree that corporations don’t value poetic license?

Absolutely. They value the bottom line. We’re expendable items. I mean any organization you work for, as soon as they’re short of money, fire the writers. No more copies, no more paper clips, you know whatever. Universities exploit the instructors as much as they can. New York City is a smorgasbord of different ethnicities and nationalities. We make no distinction about who comes to our workshops. We offer things to everybody in the population of New York City, which is almost like saying everybody in the whole world. Eventually, we expanded. We went global.

Maybe you started with different places in the USA.  Then you started to move towards other countries.

I married a Filipina and I started travelling quite a bit in Asia. So, I first worked in The Philippines. And the name New York Writers Workshop, it’s kind of a passport to the world. “New York City” resonates all over the world. Within about three years I had been going back and forth between The Philippines, in the universities, in the writing organizations. And then we started the larger conferences, of which this is the largest, the most ambitious one.

You edited a book called The Portable MFA in Creative Writing in collaboration with New York Writers Workshop. You also contributed the “Introduction” and the chapter on fiction. Can you please share some insights about, like how you came up with that book? And why do you think the need to write such a book when there are so many MFAs going on like this? 

That was in 2006. We’d been a teaching organization for six years. And we’d all encountered what we call “recovering MFA’s,” very promising writers who, for one reason or another, couldn’t move from  one sentence to the next. Their MFA programs jammed them up. In my introduction, I say – I want to teach that kind of workshop that I never had. So my approach, our approach, is “how-to,” not “don’t do.” 

It can be an MFA supporting book. So, basically you wrote for MFA graduates when they can’t work on the practical side, and they have only theoretical knowledge.  So, who were your target audience when you started to write? 

Yeah, the target audience was anyone who wanted to write. I had been teaching workshops for probably ten years. So many of my students were saying—when will you get particular exercises in the book? So I brought together some of our instructors where six of us contributed. In my section I included many of the exercises I did in my class.

Do you think that Nepal is worth writing about? 

Absolutely. We’re experiencing dense concentration of a new culture. We’re planting the experience like a seed that, we expect, will grow when we get back to home.

Can you share about your latest book Listening to Fish?

It grew out of my decade’s long experience as a scuba diver. I began scuba diving in the 1970s when the reefs appeared inexhaustible. The places where I dove first, with their dazzling arrays of biodiversity, are now at a tipping point, or past the tipping point. It’s a tragedy, a highly dangerous tragedy.

Maybe it is due to the refineries?

Oh, yes.  There is always some level of natural stress, environmental stress. But the human hand has made natural stress unnaturally stressful to the point that it’s catastrophic. Can the health of the reefs ever be restored? This is an existential question.     

So, your title: Listening to Fish. Is it listening to the grievances or the hardships, sufferings of the fish?

Precisely. If we start to listen to what they can tell us, they will tell us their stresses. They speak in a universal language. Their eyes implore. They seem to say, we’ve welcomed you here, now help us.

And dolphins are also beaching, right?

Coral is bleaching, dolphins are beaching, the sea is going mad.

So you have organized such workshops in many parts of the world. How does it help the literary community? How does it contribute to the craft of a writer? 

There’s an enormous amount of cross-pollination and collaboration. The conferences we did in Greece and Italy led to translations, publications, and community. What we appreciate here is the ubiquity of spirituality. It’s woven into the fabric of everyday life. It’s tangible. I expect some of that sense will filter into the work we all do back home.

And even we will also be indoctrinated with some of the familiar Western tradition and American values also. 

I hesitate to use the word “indoctrinated.” I prefer being exposed to, because we’re here as much to listen and learn and share, as well as teach. Last night, Ravi Shankar read his poem Kathmandu.  He concludes by saying—there must be not power, but compassion. I think travel can induce that. It reveals how much you don’t know.

I know you like different genres at a time. You don’t fix yourself to one category. But what fascinates you the most? Which is more near to your heart?

I would like to write short stories that a reader remembers. Now and then, it gives me the biggest glow. Fiction is the most important, nearest to my heart.

Rajesh Kumar Agrawal, the president of the Confederation of Nepalese Industries (CNI), has been involved in Nepal’s manufacturing sector since 1992. As the executive director of RMC Group, he oversees a diverse portfolio of products spanning cement, steel, and food industries. With 30 years of experience in the business, Agrawal has developed a profound understanding of financial management, ensuring the company’s financial stability and consistent profitability over the years. Kamal Dev Bhattarai and Pratik Ghimire of ApEx spoke to Agrawal about the state of the country’s economy and more. Excerpts:

What situation is our economy currently in?

Our economy is still going through a difficult situation. The official data shows improvements in some areas such as foreign exchange reserves, banks are loaded with cash, interest rates are going down among others. However, on the other side, we see that our exports are not increasing, in fact, they are decreasing gradually over the past three years and the government’s revenue is not increasing. Although some data shows an increase in revenue, we still need to conduct analysis to ascertain the actual situation. According to the statistics of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the last three quarters, there is not a visible improvement. Last year’s projected GDP was 3.87 which is mainly due to the contribution of the energy sector. Production and manufacturing sectors are still in the negative growth—they are not doing very well. Due to a low aggregate demand, the economy is not able to take off. 

However, I don’t see low exports as the most alarming economic concern for us because production needs to increase first in order to see a growth in exports. Production itself is low in our economy right now. The sector’s contribution in our GDP is decreasing. In such a situation, how can our exports increase? In some sectors, exports are increasing such as IT. But for production and manufacture based products, exports will only increase following an increase in production. Therefore, the CNI sees a push in production as the main goal rather than an increase in exports. Unless we are self-sufficient in the production of any good, there is no possibility of exports. For example, we used to import cement. After the government’s support, the production of cement within the country increased and we became self-sufficient. Since the last two years, we have been exporting cement as well. Therefore, low exports are not the major issue of concern, the main problems currently at hand are decreased productions and increased imports.

Post covid, countries in Asia and worldwide seem to be improving their aggregate demands. Why is it that Nepal has not seen any improvement whatsoever?

The main reason is policy-induced slowness in the economy. The pandemic was an unimaginable period that no one had anticipated. However, after that, the policies we adopted have caused the situation we are currently in. There is no other reason or any external shock. For example, the policy to reduce demand and increase interest rate was introduced in order to influence currency rate. The rate, however, was influenced entirely by our exports and was out of our control. Our decision to introduce such a strong policy resulted in an increased amount of imports, which put pressure on our foreign currency rates. Then, we moved towards a policy to ban imports. This caused panic in the economy. We had to take a loan from an international organization, which had its own set of terms and conditions. To fulfill those terms, we introduced some new policies. 

Loans in the private sector increased. We introduced policies to reduce these loans. Then, there was a boost in the real estate industry. We focused on controlling the prices. Then the share market boomed, and our focus shifted on controlling that increase. All these controlling policies continue to have effects on our current economy and we still bear consequences. The CNI believes that we are experiencing a policy-induced slowness. And the policies that were adopted due to whatever reasons at the time should have been reversed after a year. Some policies were reversed to some level in the last year but it happened too late. Therefore, its consequences still occur and will remain for quite some time.

The policies that we adopted for our imports out of panic are the biggest blunder that happened in the last five years, is that true?

That is not the only reason. It has not caused a major effect in the internal production sector because the policies were to ban import of luxurious goods. The main effects the policy had was on a sentimental level among the citizens. It generated fear regarding the future of the economy, affected government’s revenue, and gave rise to illegal business. The policy we took to lower demand and increase interest rates and to reduce loans in the private sector made major impacts. All the policies we adopted acted as a brake to our economy. If we slowed down gradually at a slower rate, the economy would absorb better. We could have increased interest rates by 0.25 or 0.5 percent as internationally advised, but we adopted a drastic two percent increase even when the situation did not favor. Policies were changed so fast that the economy was unable to keep up. All these controlling policies had an effect on cooperatives as well. We were unable to revive the cooperative sector—which is so closely connected to the general public and small businesses—even after reversing these policies. 

The restrictions implemented from Nepal Rastra Bank (NRB) at that time on the real estate business should be relaxed. The cap on investments in the share market could be removed to send a positive message. NRB has issued a working capital guideline for the loans in the private sector which has caused major effects in the production sector. NRB’s direct lending is 40 percent which is being misused in agriculture and energy industries. Asset classification guidelines have also been issued which is not efficient for group businesses. 

Apart from that, another need is to increase demand. However, the government does not have sufficient funds for that. Contractors are not being paid. A suggestion is to issue 10-year bonds for these contractors equal to the amount to be paid and 90 percent of the bond can be withdrawn from the bank. The government should immediately form a committee to limit projects and focus the budget on projects of greater importance rather than coming up with plans with insufficient budgets. It will take a great deal of time to improve the economy if we don’t take a focused approach for things.

To what extent does our political situation affect the economy?

The political environment definitely affects the economy. Our major problem is the frequent government change. The government is changing every six months. Many tactical decisions require the government’s initiation to move forward. With frequent government change, policies cannot be implemented in such short time periods. How can ministers make decisions when they are not even sure how long they will be in the position for? 

Political stability is of extreme importance because policies drive everything in an economy. There are still some old laws that need to be rectified. With the rapid change occurring worldwide, laws have to be updated accordingly. For this, a stable government and a stable bureaucracy is of extreme importance. There are three years left till the next election. A lot can be done in these three years. Everyone has now understood that for the economy to be stable, current problems need to be dealt with differently. Without political stability, we cannot escape these issues.

There has been growing concern about corruption and criminal activities within government and law enforcement sectors. This has caused an increasing sense of insecurity among businesspeople and has contributed to capital flight. How do you view this?

There are a lot of reasons for this. Firstly, if someone has committed any crime or misdemeanor, it has to be investigated, even if it is from two years ago or ten years ago. However, the old laws that I talked of before have been creating a big problem. If someone is proven guilty, they have to be punished. But right now, even people that have not been proven guilty are being put in jail. We are not asking to release the guilty. But a respected businessperson is not going to run away and there is no reason to put them in jail to be investigated. This is what we at the CNI feel. For this, we have appealed for the provision of an anticipatory bail. 

Some bankers were also convicted some time ago for signatures while issuing loans. While making so many decisions at once, some might go wrong. We have to analyze whether misdemeanors are done intentionally or not. Maybe some government officials could have made mistakes? Investigations are important. But putting someone in jail first, then moving towards investigations is not the way to go. If you see a possibility of the person running away, then sure, it is right to capture them. But if someone is willing to show up when called upon, it is not right to put them in jail before proven guilty.

The CNI suggests that financial penalties should be issued for financial crimes—jails are not the only solution. For example, if there is a tax evasion of 100m and if the person agrees to negotiate and pay the amount, then it’s done. Using the country’s resources to investigate further for like ten years into the case is useless if the person is willing to accept, negotiate and pay.

The kind of investments and support that we are looking for from the international community seems to be falling. FDI seems to be declining. What seems to be the problem?

Ultimately, when the economy is flourishing, there are opportunities, that is when investments come. Currently, our domestic investors themselves are not willing to invest. How can we expect foreign investment? Currently businesses are only able to operate at 30-40 percent capacity. How can new investments be driven under such circumstances? 

Visa might be causing some trouble at the moment for foreign investors because it is only issued for a year and there are some complications for visa issuance to investors’ families. Apart from that, there is no major issue in terms of our laws in attracting FDI. It is simply that the economy needs improvement and the investors need  to see opportunities. Such as in hydropower, opportunities can be seen, like exporting 10,000 MW. Tourism is also seeing some small investments but no major ones, perhaps because there are two international airports but they are not able to operate. Policies also need to be right.

According to your personal forecast, what is the future outlook for our economy?

We see the future as bright. Because we are in so many problems, there are as many possibilities. Chaos creates opportunities. Therefore, there are a lot of opportunities here. As I said before, political stability, bureaucratic stability, and policies need improvement. After that, there should be no problems. There are so many opportunities in infrastructures, and hydropower. There is so much untapped potential in the tourism sector. We have a big market with our neighboring countries which creates huge possibilities for production and trade. Education sector also has a lot of opportunities. If we can establish good universities and modernize our education system, we can develop the sector. Health tourism also has a lot of potential because healthcare is affordable here. In agriculture as well, there are opportunities. We need to go into commercial farming. If the policies can be fixed, there is a lot of scope in many sectors in Nepal.